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General play style mentality
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Souljacker
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 7


Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:09 pm  Reply with quote

hey guys, I'm making this topic for us to help each other with ways to approach certain situations that we find ourselves in on the ladder, for the moment I'm disregarding my normal approach of " do what pro's do " due to the fact that most of the time the way a match will play out depends on current division and general trends within players.

the purpose of this is to make the most of our games on the ladder in order to help others, essentially gaining the experiences of everyone's ladder games rather than just our own. and at the same time allowing others to give criticism and suggestions on how we played and the decisions we made. most of the time the things I'll say will be pretty obvious and intuitive but it is always nice to have read about another persons experience before you find yourself in the position yourself, decision making ( mine especially! ) can sometimes slip during the heat of a game and you find yourself losing to something that you could have easily dealt with had you been thinking clearly.

most of what I'm looking for here is realistic and fairly common situations, preferably not some crazy weird situation you find yourself in in a 30 minute long game Very Happy

ill kick it off with something extremely obvious in hindsight that I failed to deal with correctly at the time.

again. this isn't super pro level play just something for those in the silver-plat/diamond level so nothing is optimal, just general guidelines and suggestions.

I'm pretty busy with work right now so I'm not getting as much SC time as I'd like but i thought I'd put this idea out there so you know I've not gone AWOL Smile
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Dystopia
Top Bitch


Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 1053


Location: germany
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:41 pm Reply with quote

when you toss, and you will harass with mass benshees and Ravens, go Phonix/Observers  
instead of Blink Stalker/observer

other opinions?

Cause it was Blistling Sands some times ago, he harass me to the death wihil he expanding and take more y more map contol
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Souljacker
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 7


Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:07 pm Reply with quote

TvZ 1 base banshee harass

This is one of those builds that usually I love to see Terran do, and as zerg is easily dealt with, I've lost to it a few times for a few different reasons but basically ill go over a generally basic way to deal with it

1: Scout it. scouting a banshee harass can be tricky and will usually take a few " WTF " losses before you can identify it. there's nothing worse than preparing for a banshee harass and suddenly a bunch of hellions run into your base! the things i look for when scouting for a banshee harass are

* with my lings at the front door ill be looking for no attatchment on the barracks ( dont hold this as gospel though as many players do this in different ways, better to say no tech lab on the barracks, reactors are a possibility )
   
* if you can get your overlord far enough into there base your looking for the starport ( duh ) and if not try to check if they have both gas geysers

* units you should expect are pretty much just marines

there is alot of variation in this and sometimes you just need to feel they are going banshees, just remember if your not sure, be prepared and be very active with your scouting lings.


When the banshees come

In this scenario the banshees have arrived quite soon, I'm not terribly concerned about games where terran turtles for 15 minutes and sends 10 at your base!

Dealing with banshees is pretty easy going for zerg, if there timing is OK you should expect 2 banshees with cloak fairly early on, you have a few options on how to prepare for it

1: queens. pumping out a couple more queens ( ideally i would like 2 at each base but usually having an extra one bounce between bases is enough early on ) 2 queens is enough to repell 1 or 2 banshees, 2 or 3 could probably kill the queens but the damage they would take is still a cost effective victory for zerg.

                            !CONNECT YOUR BASES WITH CREEP!

2: spore crawlers. my personal favorite way to deal with banshees is spore crawlers, i dont like them against void rays but against banshees they do the job really well, just 1 ( or 2 if your overcautious like me Very Happy ) at each base is a pretty heavy mineral investment but the fact that they nullify the banshees so completely means that they are well worth the cost. if  you save a bit of energy on any extra queen you have sitting around they can always jump in for a ninja-transfuse as well. the other reason i like this is it means i have an excuse to get my evo chamber up fairly early and so can start the +1 armour for my lings whenever i want. and i don't have to rush to my lair to get the overseers, overall i think sporecrawlers are the best bet.

Additional note on the spore crawlers, I tend to just get 1 early on at the main, and then add more if I feel they are going to commit to banshees, some players just get 1-2 but others will commit more heavily

general control is very important when dealing with banshees, keeping your queens close at hand and under control avoids a lot of unnecessary deaths, other than that just keeping cool and staying on your tech targets will ensure you live through it fairly easily.

So... he has a lot of banshees, what should i do?

you have a few options in terms of your tech choice but i tend to go the most obvious. mutalisk. ( i wont go into exact builds but for me v terran in general its usually 14 expand - ling speed - lair - baneling nest - spire )

this is very preference based but in general i just go for the most obvious solution first and then add or subtract from that based on experience.

The killing blow

this is what will kill me when my decision making slips. the killing blow from terran.
obviously while terran is sitting in there little turtle base pumping out banshees the only other thing you really need to worry about are marines, as they can pretty consistently pump out marines with the banshees, this is something you should always have at the back of your mind when playing against a banshee harass, if they are going all in and not expanding then they are just softening you up with the banshees and preparing for an outright marine assault.

this again is very easy to deal with, provided you are keeping it in mind, ample creep spread and banelings / lings can deal with this easily provided you see it coming, because terran are turtling up you should be able to keep fairly good map control and use that to see when your opponent is coming, you dont need to have the units sitting ready and waiting at your base all the time since you will have plenty time to churn them out when the time comes, but definitely make sure you have the tech ready, baneling nest is cheap and enough scouting and creep spread means that if you held off getting centrifugal hooks in order to pump out mutas faster your banelings will still do plenty of damage on creep, especially if you intercept.

so basically the general idea that i follow when dealing with a 1 base terran banshee harass is.

*Effective scouting
*Preparation
*Controlling units and remaining calm and focusing on tech goals
*Maintaining map control with lings and mutas, more scouting.
*Keeping the opponents other potential units in mind but not overproducing too early.




keep in mind that in a lot of matches the " killing blow " doesn't come at all and instead the opponent expands, this is why it is critical that you don't overproduce units unless you need to, effective scouting is key in this, ideally you want them to expand as this gives you a much safer playing field to expand yourself.

This is all my personal opinions and what I've seen and read and experienced, feel free to post your ideas / criticisms and suggestions.

This is an example of what I'll probably post now and then, again very obvious and intuitive but there's no harm in sharing your experience in the ladder, i encourage everyone to post about their ladder experiences as well Smile collective knowledge ftw.
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Souljacker
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 7


Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:18 pm Reply with quote

AoL_Dystopia wrote:
when you toss, and you will harass with mass benshees and Ravens, go Phonix/Observers  
instead of Blink Stalker/observer

other opinions?

Cause it was Blistling Sands some times ago, he harass me to the death wihil he expanding and take more y more map contol


If you find that replay and watch it you might be able to find the answer, usually in situations like that i will ask myself

*how much did that effect me, and how much did it really NEED to effect me, did i overreact or slip in my general macro? or did i just not make the right choices
(decision making at the time of harass)

*should i / could i have been more prepared, could i have scouted earlier or more effectively
(preparation)

there are a lot of games where harassment makes me feel so far behind and unable to do anything but then watching it back i can see the problem isn't the harassment, or the rush, its my decision making and scouting that set me back so far.

the other thing to do is try to watch the replay and ignore the banshees completely, focus on what your opponent is doing in terms of macro, if he has nothing at his base except a few marines or w/e would it have been possible to just make a few preperations that nullify his significant investment into the banshees and then go kill him with a modest army?
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AoL_ManOwaR
AoL Council Member


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 718


Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:32 pm Reply with quote

Voidrays are the answer vs Terran in gerneral imo
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shinyvictor
Newbie


Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2


Location: Chennai
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:56 am Reply with quote

Wow,Its really awesome..... Laughing

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